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Delilah
26-04-11, 10:47 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/nov/28/lotus-birth-umbilical-cord-placenta

The lotus position
The umbilical cord is usually cut straight after birth, but some parents are taking a different approach - keeping the placenta attached until it naturally falls away. Viv Groskop speaks to advocates of 'lotus birth'

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Viv Groskop
The Guardian, Friday 28 November 2008
Article history

A newborn baby. Photograph: Christopher Furlong/Getty
When her daughter Ember was born 13 months ago, Gina Cox-Roberts, a natal hypnotherapist from Telford, had an overwhelming sense that the placenta was part of the baby's body. "The placenta and the child came from the same cell," she says. "Her placenta was as much a part of her as her hands or her heart." So why cut the umbilical cord? Instead Cox-Roberts decided to go ahead with a "lotus birth" - a practice in which the placenta stays attached to the baby until the umbilical cord disintegrates naturally a few days later.

Cox-Roberts believes that this approach - which followed an uncomplicated home birth attended by an independent midwife - gave her baby the opportunity to "let go" of the cord and placenta in her own time. "After all, her entire existence until the moment of birth was next to this placenta, which she would snuggle up to. The placenta had been her companion, her plaything: its sounds had lulled her to sleep. Here she was in this alien world and we were going to cut away the one thing she knew. Why do we feel we have a right to do that?"

Thanks to the rise of online home birthing groups, lotus birth is enjoying a revival. The expression comes from Buddhism - meaning "holy, intact child" - and while the practice was once common in Bali and various aboriginal cultures, its origins are uncertain. Now it has the seal of approval from French birthing guru Michel Odent, who has said that "we need to relearn what birth can be like when it is not disturbed by the cultural milieu. We need a reference point from which we should try not to deviate too much. Lotus birth is such a reference point."

In Australia in particular, where there is a growing home birth support network, the practice is hotly discussed. There is a book on the topic, Lotus Birth by Shivam Rachana, and the movement even has a poster girl in Dr Sarah Buckley, a GP with four children between the ages of eight and 18, three of them lotus births.

Mothers who take this approach often personify the placenta, treating it almost like a baby itself: "Be nice, use warm water to wash it!" advises one website. Cox-Roberts feels that treating the placenta with respect makes the transition from womb to world much easier for the baby. "After two and a half days, Ember's cord fell away at the navel and she had a perfect belly button," she says. "It was a little bit red but not sore or open. It looked exactly like a baby's belly button when a cord stump [the remnant of a cut umbilical cord] comes away - and that can take up to 10 days."

She says that it is not inconvenient to carry the cord, placenta and baby around together. "We rinsed off the placenta so it was as clean as possible. We sprinkled sea salt over it - it's a chunk of meat quite like liver and has the potential to go off. We had some lavender essential oil to drip on it too in case it got smelly, but it never did. We wrapped it in a terry nappy, then wrapped the baby and the placenta up together in a sleeping bag. Every 12 hours we changed the nappy and added more salt. It worked fine." She and her partner Rae, a psychologist, are keeping the placenta in the freezer until they move house - then they will plant it beneath a tree.

Unsurprisingly, lotus birth is a minority home birth activity, says Mervi Jokinen of the Royal College of Midwives, although there is no reason you couldn't ask for it at a hospital birth. "The people who do this are happy to see the experience as a life event and a natural thing. It's difficult to make a clinical comment on this because there are no studies." Jokinen is not in a position to vouch for its total safety, she says, since, "The placenta is a blood organ and bacteria can set in quickly with a blood organ."

The usual process in a birth, of course, is to cut the umbilical cord and then deliver the placenta as quickly as possible. In the majority of today's hospital births an injection of syntometrine is administered once the cord has been cut, to speed up contractions and ensure that the placenta is delivered within minutes, minimising the risk of bleeding. If you don't have this injection, the placenta comes out at its own rate - which usually takes about an hour (in Cox-Roberts' case, it took five).

Jokinen says that the practice of cutting the cord and administering syntometrine developed because it lessened the risk of post-partum haemorrhage, which was once the most common cause of death in childbirth. "This reduced the maternal mortality rate so rapidly that it was adopted everywhere." she says. Natural birth advocates - including lotus birthers - argue that this is no longer necessary: now that women are healthier, have smaller families and are less likely to be anaemic, there is no reason to adopt these methods as standard.

Lisa Schuring, an Australian who runs the Joyous Birth website, has two children, aged three and five, both of them lotus births. She sees the approach as safe and sensible, and says there was no way she was going to sever her babies' connection to their placenta. "My first child used to sleep with her fingers curled around the cord. The cord was dried and ready to come off after three days but she kept holding on to it until about seven days after birth. Then she pulled it off herself. She also did not like anyone but me touching the placenta."

Buckley says there are health benefits to lotus birth: "The baby receives an extra 50-100ml of their own blood, known as the placental transfusion, which contains iron, red cells, stem cells and other nutrients, which will benefit the baby through the first year." Lotus birthers often talk about the importance of the "babymoon": the post-birth period when the mother and baby should be together exclusively, bonding and cocooning. Lotus birth "is an ideal start", says Buckley, "because it slows everyone down: with a lotus birth, you can't take your new baby shopping". (Or rather, you could, but the placenta would have to come as well.) This is why some see lotus birth as a way of reclaiming birth as an exclusively mother-and-baby experience. It precludes the cutting of the cord, for instance, which is one common way of involving fathers in the birth, and Schuring says that lotus birth mothers tend to get their babies completely to themselves for several days. "You can avoid the "pass the baby around" thing with visitors," she says. "People are usually put off by the cord and the placenta."

Beyond the bonding, some argue that the best thing about lotus birth is that it gives you more time to decide what to do with the placenta: bury it, eat it or freeze it. The resurgence of lotus birth coincides with a rising interest in the placenta as a nutrient, with proponents claiming that it wards off post-natal depression. Ten years ago Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall was accused of cannibalism when he fried a placenta with shallots and garlic and spread it on foccaccia. Now, however, there are thousands of recipes online for placenta smoothie, bolognese and pizza, although most prefer to eat it the old-fashioned way: raw. Celebrity placenta fans include Tom Cruise ("very nutritious") and Matthew McConaughey (who planted it beneath a tree). There is even a placenta blog: "Thanks for helping to spread the placenta love!"

Most bizarrely of all, in the wake of lotus birth another new trend has sprung up in the US: placenta encapsulation services. This involves the placenta being baked, ground into a powder and converted into pills to be swallowed. One website offering this service suggests that, "When you have recovered from childbirth, you can freeze the capsules and save them for menopause." Now there's a treat to look forward to.

MrsBanks
26-04-11, 10:57 AM
Thanks so that Star, a rare article that didn't call all lotus birth mums (of which I know at least 3) crazy hippies!

HazelB
26-04-11, 01:40 PM
Im going to be hated here but to me its just yuk!

Is there not an issue with infection or dangerous absorption of salt ?

The smell of cold placenta a while after the birth is the one thing that actually turns my stomach, my least favourite bit! but thats just me, fair play to those who wish to do this :)

Dappy
26-04-11, 03:18 PM
I haven't read the whole Article just bits.

The whole idea of lotus birth doesn't bother me and I do take an interest, I don't think it's personally something I could do. I know I couldn't do it with this baby as it wouldn't be practical etc, I can't go carrying a placenta to nursery!

crossfire
26-04-11, 05:34 PM
I know someone who had a lotus birth and she explained to us how it was done and how to care for the placenta for the few days before it falls off. It required a conconction of herbs and salt rubbed into it every day and it was well wrapped and in with baby, so it wasn't obvious that it was placenta, just looked like blanket. Carefully looked after it preserves the placenta so it doesn't smell so much. Fell off after 5 days and then they froze it.

mum09
10-05-11, 09:01 AM
You mentioned this at study day briefly star have heard of these births but don't know much about them. 5 days crossfire god the smell must be awfull. Why do people do this? I agree hazel the thought is yuck!!

Delilah
10-05-11, 10:00 AM
They don't smell, they are treated with salt and herbs. There was a fab article in our magazine on lotus births.

mumma2_5
10-05-11, 07:18 PM
I had never heard of them before and when we were told about it I imagined the baby going around with a huge balloon on it lol. But when you think logically about it, it's what is done in places such as the third world where they don't have medical assistance. Also when you think all the good nutrients still in the placenta and cord, the baby is still getting at least a few more days goodness from it all.

ContraryMary
10-05-11, 07:45 PM
"Lotus birthers often talk about the importance of the "babymoon": the post-birth period when the mother and baby should be together exclusively, bonding and cocooning. "

Its not just Lotus birthers, its natural birth activists in general. There isn't enough nurture of the mother in motherhood these days. You have to get up and get out and get in shape within weeks of giving birth. Otherwise generally you are considered lazy, or quite obviously suffering from PND.

That aside I find lotus births fascinating, and at one point we did seriously consider it as an option. But we have 3 cats, and one of them had recently had kittens. The urge to clean up for the cats would have been overwhelming and I had no desire to be herding hungry and concerned cats every two minutes from the baby. It didn't seem fair on them so we are happy to just let the cord stop pulsating.

cscmadwife
10-05-11, 08:30 PM
A friend kept the placenta in a bag, hooked onto the sling where they held the baby. It never smelt, as it was washed, salted and wrapped in clean cloths. I have their story as a powerpoint presentation - I could ask permission to share, but how would I get it to you?

mum09
11-05-11, 01:45 AM
I would love to see that cscmadwife

madwifelou
04-08-11, 08:38 PM
I know this is a bit of an older thread, but I'm planning to have a lotus birth this month, in our local midwife-led unit (would love a home birth but just no room for the pool which I'm desperate to use!!!). I'm planning to treat the placenta solely with herbs to prevent deterioration of the placenta, especially as we're planning to plant it under a tree afterwards (and don't want to kill the tree with salt), and place it in a wrap of terry cloth then a bag specially made for the purpose. I can keep folk updated with how it all goes if you are interested!

Louise

Dappy
04-08-11, 08:47 PM
Please do with photos too! Nothing better than a visual learning aid :)

madwifelou
04-08-11, 09:08 PM
Lol will see what I can do!!!

MrsBanks
04-08-11, 09:47 PM
I would be very interested in hearing your updates :) Good luck for your upcoming birth :D

Delilah
05-08-11, 07:58 AM
Very interested here, would love to hear a 'running' guide!!!

madwifelou
05-08-11, 02:27 PM
Well the first update is that we have managed to rearrange all the furniture and gained enough space for a pool, so I have just booked a home birth! I think as a midwife employed in Fife, but living in Tayside, I have to make the point that there is demand for such a service so that they don't get ideas from their neighbour!

Dappy
05-08-11, 04:37 PM
Is it that easy for you to 'just book' a homebirth? Sigh.. I wish it was that easy down here lol. When are you due? Im due the 16th Nov.

madwifelou
05-08-11, 09:31 PM
Aye, though I think i may have helped that I'm also a midwife! Due in 2 weeks (August 20th), so left it quite late, and surprised and pleased that no-one tried to make any sort of fuss over it!

Dappy
06-08-11, 06:11 AM
See being a midwife does have it's influences lol ;)

My friend is due on 20th :)

Note to self for next time: don't get pregnant so I'm pregnant over the summer I can not cope with this heat!

madwifelou
06-08-11, 01:33 PM
Lol we don't get so much heat up here in the chilly north!!! And it means that I get a nice long summer holiday, Yuletide off, and also avoid the stress of my workplace moving to the new wing of the Victoria in Kirkcaldy in January!

madwifelou
28-08-11, 07:04 PM
Latest update - 8 days overdue, saw my midwife for a sweep yesterday, and they are trying the old "we're now on call for another woman so it'll be first come first served" (no, you should get the Trust to ensure enough staff on call to cover it), and "if you don't want induced at 42 weeks you'll have to see the consultant to get permission" (no actually, I don't need his permission), and "We go off call for you at 42 weeks" (not if I won't come in you don't).

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!! Will see how things stand on Tuesday (when I go back for another sweep if needed) and get on to AIMS if necessary...

Dappy
28-08-11, 07:14 PM
I was thinking about you the other day wondering whether you'd given birth yet!

Here comes all the negativity and what you are and arnt ALLOWED to do sigh.

I hope it all goes well for you!

MrsBanks
28-08-11, 09:56 PM
It's my pet hate when women are told what they are "allowed" to do when in fact it is what the trust "recommends". Hope you have a beautiful birth whenever bub decides to appear.

madwifelou
29-08-11, 08:02 AM
Thank you wonderful ladies! I am trying to chill about the whole thing, but that and the fact that friends on Facebook (which I've had to leave in the meantime - it's causing too much stress) keep setting "deadlines" for when bubs will arrive isn't helping - this baby obviously doesn't like to perform in public!!!

Dappy
29-08-11, 08:12 AM
Lol I hate that! I've tried not too tell anyone the specific date of when the baby is 'due', I've just said to most November.

I don't want to be hassled with 'is it here yet', 'have you had that baby' etc.

No thank you! Lol

madwifelou
29-08-11, 08:16 AM
It's mostly one person who keeps on with the "I hate to keep asking but..." (and emailing me to ask as well!) - as if I'm NOT going to tell everyone when they finally arrive!!!! Well, I might just keep them hanging on now lol!!!

Dappy
29-08-11, 08:23 AM
Haha yeah leave it a few days after the birth. 'oh yeah I gave birth the other day, didn't you know?' lol

madwifelou
03-09-11, 12:41 PM
Wel, William finally arrived yesterday morning (only 13 days overdue!) after me going in and out of labour for several days for up to 11 hours at a time with no progress. We ended up transferring to hospital for an ARM to get things moving, and all went well up until the final minutes of second stage when he decided to have a prolonged bradycardia, so we ended up with a ventouse. The registrar was excellent and barely left a scratch on me!

Despite all this we still managed to achieve most of the Lotus birth - I did have to have syntocinon but the registrar left the cord alone to pulse for quite some time before we had to clamp to apply some traction and to take pH bloods. But after a few hours we unclamped the cord and it is still intact with the placenta wrapped in herbs in a bag. It smells very pleasant at present.

William is very content and calm, and seems to be taking the transition to being here in his stride! He is a very healthy 7lb 4oz (the biggest baby in either family for some time!) and feeding like a dream!

Dappy
03-09-11, 04:00 PM
I'm glad you've had a healthy baby boy! And that you've managed to do the lotus birth!

:)

madwifelou
03-09-11, 08:09 PM
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150282254456243.334663.687476242&l=fc6af5696e&type=1 for first photos

Dappy
03-09-11, 08:14 PM
Aww he's gorgeous!

Ah your making me want my little bubs now! I'm getting really impatient lol

MrsBanks
03-09-11, 10:31 PM
awww he's gorgeous! Congratulations on birthing him and I wonder if you would mind posting some photos of the placenta as it is stored and when it falls off?

Delilah
04-09-11, 07:57 AM
Gorgeous! Congratulations, enjoy your babymoon :)

madwifelou
04-09-11, 04:47 PM
Will get some photos of how we've done it up asap. Basically what we did initially was drain the placenta in a colander, wash it with warm water to remove excess blood, dry it carefully then coat it in dried thyme. We then wrapped it in an incontinence pad, then a layer of terry cloth, then a specially made soft fabric bag. His cord we wrapped with a lightweight bandage to prevent it sticking to anything (clothing etc) before wrapping the placenta up.

Yesterday we left well alone, but left his nappy loose overnight to allow the umbilicus end to dry out better. Today, we removed the damp herbs from the placenta, discarded the inco pad, repacked the placenta (which, while not dry, has lost a lot of moisture) with fresh dried thyme and wrapped in 2 layers of terry cloth, putting a few drops of rose oil on the layers of cloth just to make it smell nice (since thyme is a smell you love or hate and we were expecting lots of visitors today). The cord we left alone - it is starting to separate slightly already.

I have just added a new photo at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150282254456243.334663.687476242&l=fc6af5696e&type=1 showing him with his bag - I will have to take a couple showing the packing etc in the morning.

MrsBanks
04-09-11, 10:22 PM
Have you noticed any odour at all, or has anyone else even noticed he is a lotus baby? The bag looks pretty, not obtrusive at all.

madwifelou
05-09-11, 09:27 AM
There is a little odour, but it's not anything like you'd expect. Mostly it is the herbs, which smell nice (if you like thyme!) with a slightly sweet smell underneath that. It was a bit more noticeable this morning (but still not unpleasant), but then he was feeding all night so it has been in a warm bed for 8 hours. I'm going to refresh everything again this morning, and will take some photos of what's happening then, how we wrapped it etc.

After we'd refreshed everything yesterday my cousin came to visit. She commented that he smelled lovely, then realised there was "something else" in the blanket with him and promptly handed him to her mum! So yes, a few folk have noticed, some knew beforehand, and some haven't realised at all (my uncle and aunt lst night didn't realise)

Dappy
05-09-11, 05:24 PM
What's the expected time for the lotus birth to stay attached? It's something which interests me but I'm thinking about being practical, especially with a toddler to run around after etc.

madwifelou
07-09-11, 05:53 PM
From the research, average time seems to be about 3.25 days (unfortunately I gave the paper I had to a med student yesterday, and can't remember where I found it!). Will completed his Lotus transition yesterday at 4.12pm, just short of 108 hours (4 days, 12 hours) after birth. He was inconsolable for about an hour after the cord detached, but has gone back to being the contented soul he was again. He was weighed today and has only lost 3% of his birth weight, and the slight jaundice he had is going already.

Looking after the placenta and cord really took up very little time - one change of herbs/towelling and one top-up of herbs then it was off.

Delilah
07-09-11, 06:07 PM
Wow, i always pictured it being really hard work!

I'm so chuffed you have a content little soul again! I hope it continues!

MrsBanks
07-09-11, 08:35 PM
That sounds wonderful Lou! Do do lotus birth babies tend to lose their cords sooner than clamped and cut babies then?

madwifelou
12-09-11, 10:02 AM
IIRC the research was saying cords immediately clamped took about 7 days, delayed clamping (about an hour) took about 5 days, and longer that 1 hour delayed took on average about 3.25 days. Still waiting on photos to be transferred so I can put them up here!

madwifelou
20-09-11, 02:39 PM
Photos of the "process" - placenta in bag with baby, day 2; degree of separation of the cord on day 3; placenta in its' wrappings; packed in herbs; re-wrapped; and finally, day 4 - separation: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150301255226243.338652.687476242&l=5d15e88bd3&type=1

Dappy
20-09-11, 02:56 PM
I didn't realise how much the cord shrinks!

Thanks for sharing :)

MrsBanks
20-09-11, 09:45 PM
those are fabulous photos. The thing that struck me most was how non offensive the whole thing looked. I guess one of the biggest reactions to lotus birth is the ewwww factor and these really argue against that. Thank you so much for sharing.

madwifelou
21-09-11, 05:12 PM
That worried me a bit as well Mrs B, but it really wasn't at all unpleasant, despite us not salting it! And in case folk want to know, the placenta is currently in a large pot of compost in the shed waiting for the tree-planting season, and his cord is in my keepsakes box for him along with all his other new baby things (cot card, name tag etc) and he will be given it when he has his adulthood ceremony.

madwifelou
19-03-12, 11:35 AM
An interesting wee video for you on lotus birth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwvRUrn0p90

MrsBanks
20-03-12, 10:06 PM
Thanks Lou, will watch it later when I need a study break :D

Delilah
20-03-12, 10:23 PM
Ooooh that is fab!!!:thumbsup:

Deborah Crow
08-04-12, 11:07 PM
This thread is old but I had a chance at least to see some of the pictures. The placenta ones above were not available or were moved. I did see one covered in thyme. The ground placenta spoke of in the article above being consumed in the US is news to me as a US citizen. I'm pretty up on health food store offerings and nothing remotely have I heard this practice. Why one would consume ground placenta is just not something I find appetizing at all or even desirable even as I am in the middle of menopause.

MrsBanks
08-04-12, 11:14 PM
Grinding and consuming the placenta is becoming a growing trend all around the world Deborah. It's mainly done in private in people's homes but if you have a look on google for "placenta encapsulation" you will find a lot of resources from women who have done it. As a student midwife I can honestly say I don't think I would bat an eyelid if someone said they wanted to take their placenta home to encapsulate it. It can't be done in conjunction with lotus birth though as it has to be prepared when fresh, which is before the cord separates from the baby.

Deborah Crow
08-04-12, 11:20 PM
It must be incredibly exclusive as I have yet to meet anyone even willing to speak about it or even a whiff of it has been said. Until today I didn't even know that this practice was done. Of course, my son is now in his 20's so, perhaps this is a new trend and not something that's been around. Here in the states too home birthing isn't common at least in the cities so, it's quite possible that because most births are in hospital and the placenta is processed as medical waste upon delivery it's not saved and used or there is some means of allowing it to be harvested by some agreement beforehand between the doctor and mom to be? I don't even know how that would be done. My OB appointments mentioned nothing about the placenta being even available. I find it fascinating.

MrsBanks
08-04-12, 11:28 PM
it is pretty new in the UK/USA from what I understand of it, comes from Chinese medicine practices I think

Deborah Crow
08-04-12, 11:37 PM
It certainly sounds like something New Age or Chinese medicine. I know from studying the Indigenous Peoples of America (aka Native American Indians) the placenta is buried and the umbilical cord is dried ground and consumed by the mom in some tribes. I am often curious about the different practices of people from different cultures and countries regarding life in general including birth and everything related to it.

madwifelou
09-04-12, 08:03 AM
The photos should still be there Deborah. They're at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150301255226243.338652.687476242&type=3&l=5d15e88bd3 (looks like the link address has changed actually - so this one should work!)

Personally I wouldn't fancy eating placenta (whether cooked or encapsulated) after a Lotus Birth, but then I'm veggie so it's not something I'd necessarily want to do with a fresh one either!